What's going on with HiveTips?

in #hive3 months ago (edited)

Hey @jackmiller @lightproject

Any updates on HiveTips? I heard it's broken. There were also no "tipping" transactions for the past 31 days: https://hiveblocks.com/@hivetips.pool

I don't want to be mean, but what exactly did Hive gain for over $70,000? A closed source, browser extension + backend API with ~200 installs and roughly 1-3 active users which has been broken without updates for a month?

Also, why were there no blogging updates for over 4 months, the last one roughly when/before the proposal got funded?


To the community:

We didn't fork away from Steem, showing the world that this community can't be bought, to end up as a project that gives out huge pay-checks without requiring responsibilities.

Do you want to know what other project received a similar amount of funding as HiveTips, but had a somewhat different outcome?

Uniswap - $50,000 + 120 ETH for security audit in 2018


On a personal note

I expressed my concerns many times, explaining that while HiveTips should get funded, it should be within the range of 5k-10k of "seed"-money to create a proof of concept; not 70k because the contract-developer already spent x-amount of hours on it.

I truly hope that I'll be proven wrong and HiveTips becomes a major success with thousands of active users (not just a handful) and "Tokenizes the internet with Hive" as advertised.

But being realistic, the odds of that happening are, in my opinion, sadly very slim. What does that mean? Well, I think you know what it means ...

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this community can't be bought, to end up as a project that gives out huge pay-checks without requiring responsibilities

I had some similar argument in twitter :

You were asking about Hive core vision. The original point on Twitter was to let community members propose their own visions without being guided. It was meant to be open-ended for that purpose so the Hiveblocks account couldn't respond in any other more detailed way.

It was meant to be open-ended for that purpose

I think, before asking others, we should publish the vision of all the great people building for hive - do we have one ?

We don't have a vision statement. We have the technical vision which summarizes what we're building. The vision is to create scalable, enterprise-level technology that is highly modular and versatile, meaning uses plugins and layers as much as possible.

The vision doesn't include how the technology is meant to be used because the ecosystem is supposed to determine that. So if you for example want to use Hive tech to build something that doesn't exist yet, our purpose is to make sure you can do that. We don't specify the desired use-cases. That's the difference between decentralization on Hive and centralization on other blockchain-based products which have a clear use-case in mind.

The vision doesn't include how the technology is meant to be used because the ecosystem is supposed to determine that.

I don't think, its how business work - you are building a product and you want business to discover how they can use that, instead of you telling them ?

We don't specify the desired use-cases. That's the difference between decentralization on Hive and centralization on other blockchain-based products which have a clear use-case in mind.

I think, the dapps specify some use-cases ( so we do through them). But this has nothing to do with decentralization vs centralization. Decentralization is more oriented towards the ownership of assets and use cases for usage of decentralization alone would be very specific. However, you will have a lot more other use case of what business can create. Saying vision is to create scalable, enterprise-level technology that is highly modular and versatile is a very vague statement - we should publish some use cases - like when you talk of scalability - we should show some matrix with real data and another matrix which we expect the business to test.

Long topic....

I think we're talking about different things here although in the same spectrum. Would you be interested in taking this to a chat?

Well, I can definitely talk on chat, but I think, our objective is to have our core contributor's opinion, that matters most to the outside world.

This just isn't the right post for it.

Pretty much what was expected. Even when it was working it was just giving out tiny 1 Hive tips to existing Hive users. Did zero for onboarding and mostly just gave Hive to people who are already on board.

Just because he spent $60K-70K+ out of pocket doesn’t mean it is worth that much nor that we should have paid for it.

The 2,000 HBD/day allowed them to get paid fast with little time for anyone to see if it was actually doing anything. With the elevated HBD price for most of the proposal they made a lot more than the $73,000.

Do they actually have to provide accounts and proof that the money was spent on exactly what it was approved to be spent on? Surely there must be checks in place as per the proposals?

As marky said, the amount of money was based around the time the contract developer (@lightproject) spent developing it. Whether it was developed effectively or not, no-one outside can asses because the code is closed-source, only the development results per day are known.

But as it should be pretty clear by now: time spent developing the project !== value generated by the project

If the price would have been based around the value it provides, it would have been FAR less if you compare the actual results, not the potential results somewhere in the future.

Basically, in my opinion, jackmiller should have never paid lightproject before any results were known and lightproject should have never requested such high payments without known results via proof-of-concept and the community should have decided whether it would be worth it to continue working on it.

Because at this point, Hive and its reputation are on the losing end for giving money naively to a project without PoC, not jackmiller who miscalculated the impact the project would have but still got a full refund for what he paid - and it's not some "pocketchange" which could justify an "oops, sorry - I'm out".

If this is the message we want Hive to bring outside to the world aka. "come to hive, pitch some crazy idea, develop some version of a product, sack in the money, never take responsibility for what happens next" then I doubt legitimate people/projects will have an incentive to put their reputation on the line building here.

Thanks for explaining that to me. And no word from either account on the current situation and the community is out of pocket.
I know it would go against all the principles of DPoS but Is there no way to give smaller accounts / stakeholders a bigger voice in the funding process? Does the word 'stake' only apply in a financial sense?

wait, this bullshit got funded?

No. There were milestones that I am aware of, just reimbursement for money spent developing it.

Hive tips = waste of money.

60k - 70k in marketing and to standard onboarding process would bring much much more value.

even if Hive would pay fees like ugly newsletter sign-ups + first purchase ( around 5$ per user) it would bring close to 10k users to hive.

With and standard onboarding process like free wallet needs social media account + email would be able to remember the people.

like" we miss you" or something gay to trigger them active again :)

I'm in favour of hire fast, fire fast, but it needs a concept that proofs value.

Sadly there is a ton of money going out the door with little to no results. Other things need to be prioritized and worked on and honestly those funds I would rather see some of them go to projects that ARE working and brining people to hive. Like a small fund for successful projects to help fuel their continued growth if they need it.

We legit just spent $100,000 on marketing to a front end that is extremely complicated. I'd much rather see those funds used to improve on board to make it easier with less friction for new users. At the moment we see thousands of new accounts but no activity from 95% or more of them. That CLEARLY shows there's a major issue on the front end that should be found and corrected above anything else.

And there are some great projects with no funding.

It's like in a democracy. Politicians fuck up our money and only sometimes some good isdone with it. The hivetips sounded ok to me.

I am surprised there is no shock, gasp or horror from your post . Sad . Answers needed and no one cares it seems. 70 grand?!!

It's getting fixed, just waiting on the opportunity to get work in while everything else is going on. Message me next time since I almost missed this. It's a good project and today it actually came up in a prospective partnership type context, which is a good sign. Just give me some time to get it all straightened out.

I don't think the idea is good of hive tips.

Also, I see no value in it.


@therealwolf, sorry to see you have less Hive Power.
Your level lowered and you are now a Dolphin!