The shift in power, how Proof of Brain (POB) became King of the Hive Engine tokens

in LeoFinance3 months ago (edited)


For quite some time Leo has dominated the Hive communities in price and innovation. While no one has rivaled Leo's innovation to date, Proof of Brain has taken off in price. POB is valued at 1.74 Hive at this time while LEO is 0.89 Hive currently.

While POB may have LEO on price, LEO still leads the game in volume with a 24 hour volume of over 10,000 Hive compared to POB coming in just under 4,100 Hive.

As you can see from the charts above, LEO has gone from around 1.4 to almost 0.9 now but traded around 0.60 for a few weeks. POB has steadily traded over 1 Hive after quickly climbing from 0.05.

LEO has proven time and time again no one can innovate on Hive like they can.

LEO was the first to use a custom front-end for a Hive Engine tribe, released MetaMask and Twitter easy onboarding features, anchored their token to ETH to take advantage of ETH momentum, incentivized liquidity pool participating with the LEO Geyser, and more.

So why has POB taken off while LEO has gone down?

I don't know the answer to this, but I can speculate.

LEO has taken off largely due to FOMO and @khaleelkazi's aggressive development and innovation. No one has pushed the boundaries of a Tribe like he has. For a while you couldn't even take a deep breath before another LEO themed product was launched.

So why is Proof of Brain (POB) doing so well?

I think it is a few things, but one specific thing is driving most of the momentum.

The most obvious is the inflation, Proof of Brain (POB) follows the same inflation of Bitcoin, every four year it halves. This is predictable and a successful model that has created a lot of value for Bitcoin.

Scarcity is a powerful emotional trigger that abused by the most successful salesman.

In fact, I have talked to a few of the larger stake holders on POB and they all mention the inflation algorithm being the reason they invested.

Proof of Brain started with 1 token and is only earned through author and curation rewards. There are no mining tokens, there are no other ways to earn POB outside of buying it off the market. There is a 10% beneficiary fee for all posts on POB that is used to fund their own form of a decentralized proposal system.

Some tribes have an inflation of around 6-7% and some almost as high as 25%. All of these tribes tend to reduce their inflation by 1-10% per year in a predictable fashion. Proof of Brain (POB) promises to reduce the inflation by 50% every 4 years.

In 4 years POB can potentially see significant increased demand prior to the first halving driving the price even higher. Four years is a long time, and most people have the attention span of a gnat. Will POB still be as popular as it is today in four years? Only time can answer that question but it likely will need to do some innovating if they want to continue to out price Hive and LEO.

I am a firm believer that no one can tell you the price of anything in the future and I won't pretend to have any clue, anyone who tells you otherwise is full of shit.

When LEO started to do well, I have repeatedly said for Hive to do well we need hundreds of LEOs. I still believe this and while there is currently some POB or LEO friction right now, I believe Hive is the constant victor and we are all Hive stake holders.

Full disclosure, I am not a financial consultant and this is merely my opinion and the observation of a casual observer. Before spending any significant amount of money, please consult your mom.

Securely chat with me on Keybase

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Is it known who's behind POB?

Wishing POB all the best, though I think it will be difficult to gain traction outside of Hive. Looking at the rich-list => it's centralized quite a bit (that's not going away + why does the [anon] founder/s have so much?) and the trending page => 90% seems to be about POB itself.

For LEO, I think it will be interesting to see whether they've taken on more than they can chew with social-media, defi & co. Regardless, they're surely the most innovative tribe on Hive and show the most promise to actually attract people outside of Hive (AFAIK they've already done that). What they did should be the baseline for new/existing tribes.

Is it known who's behind POB?

Everyone. 😂

I meant the account that owns 100k POB.

Is it known who's behind POB?

I don't think most do since I've been asked a zillion times, but I do know who it is, but I will respect their privacy unless I saw something that isn't ethical.

Wishing POB all the best, though I think it will be difficult to gain traction outside of Hive.

This is ultimately what all tribes should be focused on and it is something the entire Hive community has struggled to figure out.

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I don't think most do since I've been asked a zillion times, but I do know who it is, but I will respect their privacy unless I saw something that isn't ethical.

I understand, though if you know who it is, that person isn't really anon. Transparency goes a long way.

This is ultimately what all tribes should be focused on and it is something the entire Hive community has struggled to figure out.


To be clear: I'm obv. not saying you should reveal who it is, rather it has to come from the person themselves. But that's just my opinion.

I hear you. I can see wanting to do things anonymous for non-nafarious reasons. There are some things I’d want to do and see how well it does without my name behind it.

That being said, tribes are extremely centralized as they are now and trust is a huge factor.

That's exactly why I'm anon. I just dont want to be caught up irl with someone trying to get me fired because they hate my politics. Theres been a few people who were not anon in our group and they got doxxed and ppl tried to get them fired for a petty argument over hockey that turned into someone seeing the other also liked trump.

One never knows the way it will go with how toxic politics are in general and it's also why I deleted Facebook 6 or 7 years ago.

It's weird. When I was on fb I was arguing politics with former high school teachers, saw friends tearing eachother apart. Its insane

I'll take what POB I get get for adding the tag on my posts. That equates to a few bucks per week. I sell some and stake the rest. As with most tokens I'm just seeing how it goes, but I'm not seeing compelling reasons to buy a lot. I know of some people who have so they can self-vote themselves nice extra rewards even if their HIVE rewards are flagged away.

I am thrilled that the secondary tokens on Hive is getting attention and being worth more than Hive itself. This benefits Hive a lot as there can be branches of tokens within the ecosystem. No matter POB will rise further or fall 4 years from now I think it has given more benefits to the Hive ecosystem. We need many more of these tokens to succeed so that Hive Engine can potentially become a hub for trading secondary tokens similar to ETH and somewhat those Defi. I use Hive Engine / Leodex daily and there are so many interesting project to invest in. Thanks !LUV and !PIZZA



@themarkymark! I sent you a slice of $PIZZA on behalf of @mawit07.

Learn more about $PIZZA Token at (2/10)

Your comment actually helped me to understand $hive. Thank you

Fucken awesome write up get that fucker some beers!!!

Because supply is low, the price can easily rise. There is also greed because of the possible returns now.

Only the long-term will show which projects will survive ( do well) and which not.

This is the truth. Especially the greed part. Many people are selfish and greedy. was also a promising project.

@elear even "Left a 13K/Month Job For Making This Real".

Yet the Utopian project no longer exists.

Without the 4.5M SP delegation it was unsustainable.

Revenue is the keyword. With RC delegations Investors can delegate Rcs to projects that generate revenue and get a part of it.

This will change everything.

With shorter power-down web3 will boom IMO.

The only thing promising about utopian was the drain on the pool by being favored by stinc.

It'll be interesting to see how it develops I honestly can't see a real 'focus' to the community atm, other than a general dislike of Hive.

And quite a lot of ego.

What do you mean by general dislike of Hive?

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As I understand it a fair few POB enthusiasts have been flagged a bit on Hive and are 'escaping' to POB.

Irony needs a level up to describe this strategy.

I wouldnt want to post if i was getting flagged every post, PoB is an alternate to get away from that.

I'm not sure where irony comes in. I see posts that are on front page for 90 bucks for likely plagiarized travel blogs or food stuff, then I see others getting downvoted from 50 bucks to 0ed out because one person hates their politics.

If PoB helps get away from centralized powers controlling rewards then that's a win. Hive gets away from centralized social media, but does have a problem with "the wrong politics" getting downvoted

Yes I can understand the desire to switch to a new community entirely.

The irony is that POB is entirely dependent on Hive, so it's no real escape!

Unless POB switched chains, now THAT would be interesting!

Ahh I see.

I suppose as long as the spirit of hive is alive all 2nd layers are safe in terms of not being banned or deleted.

Having 2nd layer for rewards seems to help solve dving on hive, but the 2nd layer can fall into the same thing

DVing didn't happen on LEO for sure, people just held off - there was kind of a silent consensus on not doing it.

The only way to stop yourself being at the mercy of Whales is to Power Up and seek to make a return through curation, no one can take that away.

I can tell you that the average person on POB ISN'T doing that because my vote value keeps going up and I'm only selling about a third of mine on the way up, which means people in general are failing to 'protect their earnings'.

The only way to stop yourself being at the mercy of Whales is to Power Up and seek to make a return through curation, no one can take that away.

To add to that, one can also make thier own token and community that branches off like LEO/POB did.

It is pretty interesting seeing posts on LEO/PoB make more in terms of USD value than they do on Hive. With dozens or hundreds of communities as active as them we could see a bright future where decentralized communities are where people go who are looking for earning rewards for blogging as the primary reward, and Hive becomming less and less needed for rewards.

I realized this too, they found in POB an escape from punitive measures that they were suffering in HIVE.

If the measures that caused them to be punished in HIVE are also measures that the POB community does not agree with, they will be eternal nomads. But if it's a governance problem, I think it will work as a citizen who moves from one country to another because he doesn't agree with a certain type of way of governing.

I may be being naive, but I'm still in the ask-before-shoot policy. (Obviously when the offender doesn't have a weapon, haha)

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And quite a lot of ego.

Yes. And selfishness and greed. Just like on Hive.

Yup, no difference really! Just more visible because it's a much smaller pond.

POB is bitcoin like, I think there will be more new tribes that follow POB model in the future.

Hey Marky. Do you think the upcoming tribes will follow these tokenomics ( or make the tokens even scarce ) to keep the price up and bring in investors ?

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I see it as an experiment. I also think it is a lightning only strikes once sort of thing. It is unique and not likely to work a second time. Especially as a generic tag.

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What's the future of the DUNKsocial tribe?

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Your post even answered your own question.


Speculation - The fact that it's Bitcoin-style distribution has raised many people's eyes for it.


Demand: With little demand and big whales buying, they make the price go up


New community and still a lot to be explored.

Put it all together and give the result. But in the long run, it's the danger that lives there.

Scarcas can be attractive, but if the tribe doesn't innovate, doesn't bring anything new, absolutely nothing that adds, over time the value will drop. Leo has several updates and jobs. Only, many people's eyes have changed from LEO to POB as it is a place where various subjects can be written without having to be just one subject. The rest is history.

Now let's wait and see. xD

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decentralized proposal system

Are you talking about discord chat?

No, there is a proposal system with pob, it is very primitive though. You make a post proposing something and people vote on a comment for yes or no to decide if it should earn some pob to fund it.

I only saw one proposal but it is a pretty simple system.

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Just wondering why POB doesn't use Archon governance system where every change have to be approved by stakeholders, it works nice on SPORTS. Some post on trending page of POB tribe may suggest that they are against DPoS, some users are calling Hive witnesses Hitlers. I prefer 20 units Hitler (Hive) then 1 unit Hitler (POB), for this reason I stopped buying POB

I'm pretty sure he is joking, at some point.
Getting wiped is hard to deal with, yet he still bothers.
He gets credit from me for that.

I am not sure, I can't speak for POB but for my own token I felt governance events are so rare and a simple post with responses is plenty good enough. There is very little engagement so it's just getting a rough idea of what people think.

Some post on trending page of POB tribe may suggest that they are against DPoS, some users are calling Hive witnesses Hitlers. I prefer 20 units Hitler (Hive) then 1 unit Hitler (POB), for this reason I stopped buying POB

I haven't seen this, but I honestly haven't been paying much attention. I think it is kind of funny someone would think that but I am not surprised one bit.

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We are still in the discussion stage, it may be that in the future we will adopt this alternative or not.

I believe that because it's a very young community, just over 3 months, things still need to be discussed and decided by everyone and not imposed.

I understand your decision to no longer purchase POB, but you can continue to purchase them through posts and comments. It would be great to have you there.

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In the beginning that was the idea, of voting yes or no, but they took the discussion to discord and they are deciding some things there. It's not all decided yet, but the community is moving in some directions, and that makes me very happy and that's why I'm still there.

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I think POB is great but needs a lot of work. I don't doubt that their value will drop after a while and Leo shall rise again, but in the meantime, I'll just enjoy the dividends.

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I think the AD burn revenue is also a nice addition to the pob economics,....

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Ad revenue is tiny. It takes a lot of traffic to make good money with ads.

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The most obvious is the inflation, Proof of Brain (POB) follows the same inflation of Bitcoin, every four year it halves. This is predictable and a successful model that has created a lot of value for Bitcoin.

THIS. I like that a deflationary model punishes weak hands in time...

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I like that a deflationary model punishes weak hands in time...

Not sure I agree. There is no guarantee anything will continue to go up just because it is deflationary, in fact odds are largely stacked against it.

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Great overview @themarkymark. I always enjoy reading your posts because they are quite informative. Like I didn't know that there is 10% beneficiary on all PoB posts. Does it include comments too? Can I know which account acts as a beneficiary, and who owns that account?

Moreover, I think PoB has gone famous earlier due to its tokenomics (Inspired from BTC) and unique set of features (Best of LEO & HIVE). But now it's mostly because of its price. Which is totally understandable. Whales, in order to acquire a decent stake, are buying every amount of PoB they can get off the market. This decreases the liquidity, pushes the price upward, and attracts more people to create content with POB tag which is cool. ;)

Btw, I agree with you on this - we need 100 LEO-like projects on Hive for it to succeed in the long term.

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Can I know which account acts as a beneficiary, and who owns that account?

You can use my Hive Engine Tools to see that, use the Tribe Config and put in POB.

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Thanks a ton. It helps!

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Just wait for POB police to form and then the downhill trend will start.

It'll be their right because it's a tribe with central authority like all of them.

They have formed. I can see the sh*t-show forming.

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Proof of Brain (POB) promises to reduce the inflation by 100% every 4 years.

I'm not sure I got that... Does it mean that after 1 year inflation goes to 0 and in the next years it won't change za 0-100%=0?

Sorry should be 50% (halving)

Is proof of brain a distribution method?

In what way? STEEM and HIVE have exhibited a transfer of wealth upwards.

In that it is a way to distribute tokens and not sell them (illegal unregistered ICO).

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Who had the illegal ICO?

Well technically a few, but my point is tokens are distributed through proof of brain not sold. By selling them you can be classified as an unregistered ICO. Hive, Steem, Tribes, all use Proof Of Brain model to avoid being an ICO and potentially even an unregistered security.

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Have you received tokens you haven't purchased?

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No. I've not received anything I haven't purchased. WTF are you talking about?

Have you received author or curation rewards?

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Yes Mark - I got 20 cents for a post.

That's a distribution.

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It's a community just like LEO, but it doesn't have a specific subject, but focuses on rewarding original content (and the higher the quality, the greater the reward for the obvious).

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POB has some whales that are constantly driving the token's trend in the market.

also it has a strong community, it reminds me a lot of Leofinance, but at the moment it has no products, although it is a very young project.

Bitcoin-like inflation alone cannot be the reason for this success. are we in a bubble? Maybe. Meanwhile, I love the community and I keep doing Power Up 😁

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Bitcoin-like inflation alone cannot be the reason for this success.

It is, that and the fact it is new and shiny.

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Thanks for helping me catch up on how POB works. I’m loving the payout but I could t figure out what made it so special. It will be nice to have a platform focused entirely on content if hive ends up moving in a bunch of directions with games and other apps.

As for whether or not POB will stay strong, it depends entirely on how much excitement they continue to generate. I heard they are getting ready to do outreach. This alone got me interested and makes me excited to get more involved there

There is only "one" guy that really driven the price up for LEO earlier , now with POB.

I want to check how POB look when onealfa has it's target bag full.

PS: I still have full faith in LEO.

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Great hive tokens doing well. POB has taken everywhere by storm under this short time.

Hope to see POB and other tribes achieving more strides and development in here in months/years to come

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I think that POB is already slowing lately, and Leo has a great team behind innovating at every step. In terms of real money, Leo will prevail given enough time, as they underpromise and over-deliver, which is clearly a recipe for success. When the market will be booming, Cub and Leo will rise again.

It is about long term sustenance which only time will prove.

Here's the deal you guys are still in elementary school on this. The reason pob is doing better than most coins is because of it's deflationary qualities. However, thats not the first hive engine token to really coin that idea. The first and best done was Bitcoin MYK. Bitcoin MYK accelerated the concept and gave all the ledger and value to bitcoin holders. So no reason to think any foul play with the coins or something or another.

Now the reason POB will ultimately fall again to leo.. They both will have issues and i'll tell you why as they have. However there are some fundamental problems they both have. I"m sure you guys glad to hear real analysis instead of someone holding the projects afraid to speak frankly about them for fear their investment dollars will dwindle. I've lucky stayed in a place where i don't have that issue.

So the problem is POB deflation will somewhat balance the ridiculous inflation rates tribes are goign to go through. Ultimately even POB won't be able to deal with it. Leo is already being taken out by it but Leo has one secret weapon proof of brain doesn't have.

Here's what you all missing and you never listen so maybe this time you will. Leofinance is very niche but not only niche .. niche in a smart way.. What do i mean by that? Well i've seen this done before on several projects and they've all done fairly well for a time. That is projects that only allow posting of crypto or business content.

Crypto and business posters tend to be investment savvy. They seem to understand investing better than a general audience of starving artist who will bleed the system often times dry trying to earn on their creative work and not investment strategy.

Leo was smart to be niche on a cloned platform like or peakd that is already oversaturated. So the focus on one particular area made sense. POB after the deflationary bug wears off and it will because the levels of inflation again are much too high and people are going to be selling pob as soon as they get it. I"m not trying to be harsh here but this is a clone and its not going to do anything moreso than any other tribe but it doesn't have enough money coming through the hive ecosystem to sustain it.

So its probably going the way of the dinosaurs like many others. Leo manage to get some branding effect and it's kept it alive. now its on life support. However its not dead. It performed well but like many other tribe tokens they just can't ever decouple from hive and they in my opinion do have to eat hive's lunch and don't really have another source to pull from. This is where projects like bitcoin myk are going to ultimately walk teh dog with most of these projects. I know thats hard to believe but fundamentaly there are just too many issues with these projects and only a few solutions in my opinion.

Best thing you can do is look into projects like bitcoin myk.. it doesn't have to be bitcoin myk but it probably needs to be bitcoin myk like projects. Now you don't have to listen we can just watch prices continue to fall and people sell out like there is no tomorrow but then i'm going to hate to be the guy who told you so. bitcoin myk has the ability to pull from other sources and other chains as well as rise the chains they exist on up. That's just not what's going to happen with many of these projects they lack the layout the fundamentals and the blueprint to get that right.

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Best thing you can do is look into projects like bitcoin myk..

Well on hive engine that is lol. See hive is a 200 place coin and the price falling. So right there your economic options are slim. At best you need a product that can bring in new money. Are tribes really doing that though? or dissipating the existing money in hive. As i said i knew you guys would as always take this as a joke lol but maybe if you all listened to the community you'd not be a 200 place coin when you should be a top 10 crypto... i guess we'll never know though seeing that you all have a bad track record in that department lol. i also said it doesn't have to be bitcoin myk because i knew you guys would be smart asses probably does need to be a system similar.

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I spent more on gas this year than the entire market cap of your coin. You and Lasse are notorious for being the only one buying your token.

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haha, we're a ubi coin so i have to buy with donations and proceeds from the site.. but have your laughs marky mark i suspect i'll have the last one when your little empire collapses into cinders lol

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remember the little are many and the big guys like you are few and just like the smaller bugs and insects survived cataclysm lol.. and the dinosaurs went up into smoke wiht that are your days numbered marky mark. i'll be there at the very end with you lol.. looking at you lol

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More than that, I think it is more popular because there is a lot of garbage that is getting a lot of votes, instead on leofinance they focus on a single topic, unlike POB that any idiot posts about the unfairness of the votes and paw! $30.

I know POB is having explosive growth, but that giveaway of money to the idiot spammers will cost them dearly.

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i still prefer bbd, its worth now 2.14$ oh and btcmyk of course lol

Posted via

Dude you purposely forgot to mention the number one tribe of them all: LasseCash

up like 20x in a month, then your graphs of LEO and POB looks like dogshit... some people took profit the last few days, I will say 2 more weeks and we go even higher!


About centralization / decentralization please read / watch this:

My best guess is that LEO and POB has more centralization of ownership then LasseCash has, it is just hidden in a bunch of anonymous accounts controlled by 1-10 people most likely. So in the end, what you want? A fake BS token with anonymous ownership or a tribe with transparency and a clear leader, who cares about the price going up? Its up to you, either way we go up again soon!

By the way HEX is number one, PULSE is number two and LasseCash is number three in the whole cryptocurrency market. And @themarkymark is just an afraid poor guy hiding behind a screen, who made too much on BS bots back in the steem days... pure no value BS all the way!

Dont know why I always have to do the hard work on Hive (former Steem) and still get little rewards?? Thats life I guess... not happening on LasseCash!

Lassecash is the shittiest centralized bullshit tribe on Hive. In fact I would call it an illegal unregistered security based on how centralized around you it is.

Who’s buying? No one but you.

Who’s earning rewards? You of course.

Who do you vote for? Yourself of course!

You make shit coins look promising.


Atleast LasseCash is transparent, POB and LEO is not at all (just like STEM).... so your arguments are futile!

You are a shitHEAD, shitting all over the Hive blockchain and one of the reasons the price chart looks like dogshit, thats the truth no one dares to say, because of your stake in Hive that you got from real useless illegal bots!

Don’t get mad about facts. Embrace them, educatate yourself, do better!

I am not mad, I am just annoyed that you shit all over hive, which I been using for 5 years now (former steem of-course).

You are the one that believe in NASA / SPACEX fairy-tales, not me, so you are the one that lack real true education!

How many freaking times do you have to edit your comments. I get like 10 notifications for every comment you make.

The truth makes you obsessed with me.

Too bad that we wont see you cry when LasseCash do another 10x or 100x from here... since you hide your face behind a screen, sucker!

Lol lasse could do 100x it all depends on how much of your own token you buy and at what price. You decide what the price is since you are the only one buying that shit coin.